EP 14
Love and Relationships – Women
In this episode, Darius and Peter delve into the complexities of love and relationships, offering personal insights shaped by their combined life experiences. They discuss how early influences, cultural norms, and subconscious biases affect partner selection and relationship dynamics. Through candid stories and reflections, the hosts explore the “baggage” we bring into relationships and its impact on emotional connections.
The episode emphasizes the importance of self-awareness and emotional vulnerability in fostering strong partnerships. Through a blend of personal anecdotes, humor, and deep reflection, this episode offers listeners a relatable and heartfelt discussion on navigating the joys and struggles of intimate relationships, encouraging men to embrace vulnerability and continue evolving in their personal growth.
Key Points
- Recognizing how subconscious beliefs and past experiences influence your behavior allows for healthier, more intentional relationships. By identifying these influences, you can make conscious choices, break negative cycles, and nurture healthier, more intentional connections.
- Relationships naturally evolve, and the initial euphoric phase of connection often fades over time. Sustaining a fulfilling partnership requires ongoing effort, including clear communication, active listening, and a willingness to work through challenges.
- Relationships thrive when partners embrace and integrate diverse traits, to support and elevate one another. With harmony, both partners can achieve more together than they could individually.
Darius
Hello everyone. And welcome to another episode of 50 to 70. Meaningful conversations between men. My name is Darius Naigamwalla, and I'm here with my co-host Peter Calin. Peter, how are you today?
Peter
I'm doing great. Such a joy to be here with you again for another episode and to share, a meaningful conversation. This one, one where I'm approaching with a little bit of trepidation, but one that needs to be shared with our audience.
Darius
And one that I think requires both of us to be vulnerable and share our experiences. Because for me personally, it's been a great source of learning, a great source of professional development. But there's also been inherent challenges associated with that.
Peter
Yeah. And it's such a reminder of life and life's challenges. So it's consistent with as we keep encouraging our audience. Just keep learning. Just keep growing. Just keep evolving. Recognize that change is not a bad thing.
Darius
So for those of you that haven't figured out what our topic is, we are going to be talking today about your relationship, your intimate relationship with your significant other. If you're a man, it could be with a woman. It could be with another man. If you're a woman, this need could be with another woman. It is that intimate relationship with that person that probably knows you better than anyone else on the planet.
Darius
And obviously that comes with a ton of benefits emotional, spiritual, mental, logistical, physical. But it doesn't come without challenges that are inherent with having that level of intimacy and trust and vulnerability with somebody.
Peter
And we'll talk about how to engender some of that trust, and how to let go of the vulnerability that allows for clear communication and sharing of feelings, which is often what the challenges we're not really especially men. We're challenged to share our emotions.
Darius
Yeah. And I'll throw a big disclaimer out before we get into any of this subject that although Peter and I have spent a lot of time doing post-secondary education and graduate degrees, we are definitely not experts when it comes to this topic. I consider myself a lifelong learner and a student. We're just trying to share our experience and some of our learnings to hopefully help some people in the audience.
Peter
One person, one person. Yeah, I can help one person. We think we've done, a service to the audience.
Darius
Yeah. So what we're going to walk through today are we had to come up with a framework because this is a very complex topic, and there has been hundreds, if not thousands of books written on the subject. But from our experience, we wanted to think through setting the stage. You know, what kind of imprints you have when you are, when you're growing up, the partner selection process and the partner selection process, there's both conscious and subconscious or unconscious criteria based biases that come into play.
Darius
Place the initial phase, that euphoric. This is the best person I've ever met in my life phase. What I call the decision point and then making it work well. What you can do not to point fingers at your partner, but to actually look at your role in this dynamic that you and your partner have created and figure out where you have opportunities to change and grow.
Peter
Well, I will later into the preface that you stated that we're not experts at this. We have a combined 120 years of experience with relationships. And, along the way, we've learned a couple of things, and we're having a conversation, you and I, about that. Some of the things maybe will unravel the complexity of the perplexity, the vexing nature of relationships.
Peter
And as I said to you a little earlier, I'm not sure there's probably low probability of redemption from our engaging in this. There's a high probability of condemnation. We'll do our best.
Darius
But is it? The road to hell is paved with good intentions?
Peter
I've heard so.
Darius
Yeah. So we're on our way. So let's start with the first piece, which is the setting, the stage before you are the priming of the pump. What does that mean in your mind, Peter. That initial step of the journey.
Peter
I think it changes with each interaction. It changes with each stage of your life. How you set the stage when you're young and foolish, you're being driven by factors that really are unconscious. You're driven by sex, you're driven by attraction, and you're not even aware of what is drawing you to set the stage and decide which person to bring your attention to.
Peter
And which person, which woman. If it's, male-female relationship, where to and how to define the person that you want to spend time with, that you want to have a relationship with.
Darius
Yeah. As I think about setting the stage, it's far more complicated than people give credit to it. So setting the stage, you look at the relationship that your parents have and we choose that which is familiar. And so we will consciously or subconsciously emulate the relationship that our parents had. We will look at the cultural norms and the cultural beliefs as to what beauty is, and that will get imprinted along the way.
Darius
We will have to incorporate the personal biases and beliefs that are told to us along the way, and people have different reactions to those beliefs. You might be told that you're not good looking or you're not handsome. You're not smart. Some people might choose to believe that. Other people might choose to take a different path and show, wow, this is what I'm being told. I'm going to show how that's not the case. I'm going to compensate for it.
Darius
And I think we also have to look at the same scars, those scars that are left on us by people that have said things or done things that we might not even remember them, but they're all there. And that's all the kind of like the subconscious tapestry that we are starting and we're bringing to the table, whether we're conscious of it or not. This is what people call baggage. Yeah, right. This is all the stuff that we are bringing that we need to look at in one way, shape, or form or another.
Peter
Yeah. And I'll just add that, for me, and I believe the deepest imprint is our relationship with our mothers, the first woman we have a relationship, a love relationship with, and how that can deeply imprint us in terms of selection.
Peter
Whatever nature, personality, looks, the mother has, will probably likely influence you. Whatever amount of nurturing you received, or did not receive, will affect how you look for certain traits from a partner. And I know in my case, I did okay.
Darius
Yeah, I would say there is a it's a you're right with the majority of the male population, then there's a minority that's like me that chooses partners that are more like their fathers. Right. Because again, it's comfortable, it's familiar, it's there. But that parental relationship and recreating those dynamics, it's something unless we're very conscious of, we're going to walk down that path and do again and again.
Peter
And when you say do again and again, do what? Again and again.
Darius
Repeat what our parents did to us. Yeah. And not even be aware that we're repeating patterns and that there could be a different choice. And I think of a house full of drama. Right? A house full of a lot of yelling. Well, unless we consciously choose to make a difference, we're just going to recreate that pattern
Peter
Yes. Yeah. And one other thing. The being conscious is not only conscious of what proactive actions you can take, but being conscious of your unconscious behaviors that resulted from your experience with your parents.
Darius
Absolutely. Because that culmination of the experiences we have is what makes us who we are today.
Peter
Exactly.
Darius
And if we're aware of what it is we are dealing with or we are aware of who we are, we know ourselves better. We are able to understand our selections and make different selections if we choose. Or, you know, the definition of insanity is doing the same thing, expecting a different result, right? I look at people that are in their third, fourth, fifth marriages.
Darius
I don't know what has happened because I obviously haven't been married three or 4 or 5 times, but you have to assume that there are certain patterns that keep coming across, and they're not doing that work to look at what their role in that dynamic is.
Peter
Yeah. So that brings us to a little bit of this concept of being mindful. And we've talked about that's been kind of weaved into many of our episodes. But if you're not aware of how you're unconsciously affected by the behaviors of your parents, whether they had an addiction problem or whether they had difficult lots of drama within the house.
Peter
If you're not aware of that, and you may not even notice your adaptation of those behaviors. And so this concept of being mindful, this concept of paying attention and then noticing when you're engaging behaviors that have nothing to do with the present, nothing to do with this person who you're having, trying to have a relationship with. You're reliving, or I should say regurgitating the pain of the past.
Darius
Yeah. Creating it in the future.So let's talk about partner selection. We've talked about you have this backdrop that set that most people aren't aware of. Gosh knows, I wasn't up until recently. Then we get into partner selection, and I think partner selection is driven both consciously and subconsciously to the point that you just raise. I knew for myself I had very simple conscious selection criteria.
Darius
I wanted them physically attractive. I wanted them intellectually strong so that I could engage in a conversation with them, and I wanted core values to be remarkably consistent. That was it. What I didn't bring into the pair was all those things that we had talked about, those subconscious biases, those same scars, those beliefs, the parental relationship. So on the surface, I knew what I was picking and I thought I knew why I was picking it, but it's like the tip of the iceberg.
Darius
You see a piece of it? Yes. And then as you get into the relationship, you see the depth of it underneath.
Peter
Yes. My experience, very similar. My mother very attractive woman. And so I looked for attractive women and, but I also noticed over time, like you, I learned this over time. I wound up selecting women that may not be nurturing.
Peter
Looking for more nurturing. I also had a tendency to unconsciously find women who were a little bit of service kind of dominant in their, they were not passive and so those were traits my mother had and and it wasn't always the same. I mean, my first marriage, I was 17 and I think it was different from later where these embedded imprints started to manifest a little bit more strongly as I felt stronger in relationship.
Peter
Yeah. And so, you know, I'm married now for over 38 years to a wonderful woman, Jerry. And I was married for about nine and ten years to another wonderful, amazing woman, Ethel, when I was 17. And I come to really appreciate how wonderful they are over time, in the midst, in the moment, in the present.
Peter
Not so sure I was as appreciative.
Darius
That's very eloquently said, very eloquently said, as I think about the selection process and engaging in that dynamic, engaging in that relationship, the initial phase of the relationship is euphoric. There's no other way to say it. You meet somebody, you're finishing off each other's sentences. You're thinking about them all the time. There's physical chemistry, and I have two pieces of advice for anyone who is currently in that state right now one, stay in it for as long as you possibly can, because once it's gone, it takes a shit ton of effort to get back.
Darius
I'm going to talk more about that a little bit later on. And then the second thing, don't do anything rash while you're in this stage. And what I mean by that is three months after meeting someone, don't say, hey, let's go get married, because that might work out. And if it if you've done this and it's worked out for you, fantastic.
Darius
More often than not, the person you meet in the first three months is the best version, because you're also presenting the best version of yourself. And it's only over time that the true version comes out. And that's where you get to see the person and see if you really want to spend time.
Peter
You have something personal to relate to that.
Darius
No, I never got married after meeting somebody for two weeks. I don't. Thought about it.
Peter
Any friends or anybody, you know?
Darius
No. No. You.
Peter
Me? Maybe me. I mean, I my high school sweetheart. Yeah. She, I impregnated her and we got married, so maybe that's kind of like, in that euphoric phase. The universe. Kind of. Anchoring me down to that relationship, maybe unconsciously.
Darius
Maybe. That's interesting. Yeah. No, I that's not one I've ever thought about because I was, I always had that voice in the back of my head. Don't do anything dumb. You've done enough dumb things in your life. Don't do anything dumb. Yeah.
Peter
Well, it's it's, I think it's a in a judgment of the moment. It is because dumb getting a woman, a young teen pregnant is, dumb, but it also produced some wonderful.
Darius
But look how it's turned out. It sounds amazing. Yeah, right. So in the moment, it might have been a challenge, but long term, you couldn't imagine any life any other way right now. Well.
Peter
Sometimes there's a synchronicity that we can't see early on.
Darius
Absolutely.
Peter
Relationships. And that's another thing that I hopefully will be able to share, that even when there's despair, look to see if there's a synchronicity there that you know, it's aligning to your life that you're not aware of.
Darius
Yeah. So with me, I've noticed a pattern which is I'll be in a significant relationship for about two years. That's when the cracks and more have appeared and that's when a decision point needs to be made, which is am I going to stay and work, or am I going to move on and try and find something, quote unquote, better?
Darius
And in reflecting on some of those decisions that I've made, I think a lot of the cultural beliefs come in to bear relationships shouldn't be work. There should be like a fairy tale ending. Right? There's one person that is going to be able to meet all my needs. As an aside, if you found one person who can meet all your needs, I want you to go to age differently.com. I want you to write down in the comments section exactly how you pulled this off, because my experience, no one person can meet all your needs. And so it's thinking through and being aware of the biases that are resulting in you making that decision.
Darius
I made the same decision. I don't know, 4 or 5 times. It's been two years. All right, moving on.
Peter
I ask and do you mind elaborating? What do you mean by cracks?
Darius
Cracks in a relationship? Yeah. The harmony's starting to disintegrate. Issues are starting to appear. The euphoria is gone right there. The true personalities have emerged. You're not presenting the best version of yourself. You're being your authentic self. And they are. And you're also probably showing your partner some of the worst sides of yourself.
Peter
And that's when the cracks start to show up because you were hiding those maybe at the beginning or during the euphoria.
Darius
I think you're hiding them. I think you're just so excited to put on your best face. I don't think people are being maleficent as they're doing it. I think they're just so happy and that they want to be the best version of themselves. But over time, those cracks inevitably appear.
Darius
So if you make the decision at that point in time to leave, I guess what I'm saying is we have to be conscious of why we're making that decision to leave and recognize that making that decision to leave is not easy, and it can be very tough. I was divorced, and making the decision to get divorce was pretty devastating for both my ex-wife and I, but we realized this wasn't the right fit for either of us and we couldn't keep going.
Peter
Yeah, and why did you or how did you come to make the decision?
Darius
That's a topic for another time, my friend. But I just knew internally the time was right. And when I made the decision, I had a sense of peace. That was that.
Darius
So if you choose to stay right, so you're at that mark where you're struggling or you've been with somebody for an extended period of time and little things that they used to do that would endear them to you. Now sound like nails on the chalkboard. This is the time where I think you have an opportunity to do some tremendous work.
Darius
So I've been with the same woman now for almost 11 years, and I can say her name is Wendy. I've probably learned more during my relationship with her, from her, about myself than at any other point.
Darius
Right? So when I think about the things that happen when I made the choice to stay, all right, I'm going to try and make this work because I'm tired of recreating the same pattern. It's time to put this pattern to bed and try and create something new. I started to identify when I was getting activated, so if I am responding out of proportion to the stimuli, what is my role in here?
Darius
What is being triggered? It's easy to blame your partner. It's easy and it's something I'm really good at. You did this. Right. This is your fault. But the best story or the best analogy I've heard is when you point your finger at somebody - those of you on the lookout on YouTube. They're not on that webcast - You can see three of your fingers point right back at you. Right. So you can blame somebody else. But in reality, you got to look inside and see what's going on.
Peter
Yeah. And inside sometimes is the interpersonal piece. But I want to share that this this is not always interpersonal between you and your partner. The cracks, the agitation, the tribulation, the drama. My own experience, for instance, is that sometimes because of a subtle, unconscious anger, that my life didn't turn out the way I wanted to, I sometimes brought that into my relationships.
Peter
And I wonder how many people in the audience. It's something I call it. External personal experiences affect the relationship. I'm willing to bet it's pretty regular. Pretty common.
Darius
Oh, I am too. I think that's part of knowing yourself and knowing your bad habits. Yeah. So I give you example. One of my bad habits. I will give my partner a compliment. And it is a genuine, heartfelt compliment. Then she'll say thanks and walk away.
Darius
I was giving her a compliment, not only to give her a compliment with the expectation that I would get one back, and then I would get irritated when I didn't get one back. So I was playing a subconscious game where I was serving the ball over the net. I just kept serving the ball over the net until I realized, why do you keep serving the ball over the net? It doesn't make any sense. Stop.
Darius
Yeah, yeah. Stop that. And I think the other thing annoying yourself is knowing when you're stressed, what your knee jerk reaction is. Do you want to fight? In other words, in a time of stress with your significant other who says something less thoughtful, do you fly off the handle angry? Do you want to freeze? You don't know what to do, so you just sit there like a bump on the log? Or do you just want to run away? Get out of that situation.
Darius
I can tell you for me, when some of these are thing, I just don't want to be there.
Peter
Yeah, that that's probably common. But is that is that what we what you would recommend in that instance? Because I have similar challenges.
Darius
So what I recommend this is one where you know what my dad always used to tell me, do as I say, not as I do before he would go and do something that I wasn't allowed to. What I try to do now is be mindful. I try and be thoughtful of what I'm feeling. I try to feel the body.
Darius
I try and understand why I'm being triggered, and then I try and breathe through it so I can respond and stay in the moment and stay present and have the dialog. Does it always work? No. Yeah. Clearly a work in progress. Yeah. And she's got the patience. I will tell you one thing about Wendy. She got the patience of a saint. And when she chooses, she can read me like a book.
Peter
Yeah.
Darius
Which I'm grateful for.
Peter
Yeah. And that's why you've been in the relationship 11 years.
Darius
11 years? I think the other thing that we're getting at here is you have to be vulnerable with your partner
Peter
Yeah. Yes. Jerry will tell you I'm not. Jerry will tell you I hold things in. I don't share how I feel a lot, and I, and I think there's a generational difference. Maybe a bit. I think I'm sharing a lot because I was conditioned, trained, grew up when men didn't display, share, had to be dominant.
Peter
And so I still, I think, retain a lot of that, at this stage in my life, in my interactions with my wife. But I believe that I've gotten exponentially better at displaying and sharing my vulnerability. And I'll share with the audience. I'll share with you, Darius, I don't know if I have. That's in large part to having daughters.
Peter
You know, you have a relationship with daughters. It's a female relationship. It's a different kind of love relationship. But you know you're trying to help them grow into strong people, strong humans. And so you, you want them to be able to understand vulnerability allows you to get stronger.
Darius
It does make you stronger. And for those that haven't listened to our episode on male relationships, why you need them, please go back. Take a listen to that one. If it's of interest to you. We spent the whole podcast talking about the importance of male relationships and how vulnerability really is one of those key tenets of creating a healthy male relationship.
Darius
Yeah, I think of other things to do, and this is one that I used to be horrible at, and I've gotten better, which is when you mess up or you've hurt their feelings, say sorry. And like the Canadian accent that came out, even I heard it back. Sorry, sorry. Don't say Peter. I'm sorry I hurt your feelings.
Darius
But you were such a gigantic pain in my—the minute you put the word "but" everything before it is gone, it's discounted. It doesn't matter. I'm sorry. Period. I hurt you, and I didn't want to do that. Period. No "but you didn't clean the dishes and you didn't do this." No, because that just turns into a fight. So when you know, when we all know when we made a mistake.
Peter
Yeah. And I'll share that. We know we made a mistake and we say we're sorry, but are we? Are we sorry just not for what we did, but maybe consider that we hurt, we caused pain, discomfort to the person we love and care for. That should be enough for the sorry. It doesn't have to be justified in any way.
Darius
I agree. If you've hurt the person you're with, I'm sorry. Yeah, I will try and do better.
Peter
Exactly.
Darius
I can't promise that I will do better, but I can promise that I will try. Yeah, and we might be having this conversation again in a month where I say I'm sorry I tried, I failed, I'm going to keep trying to.
Peter
And I know you probably learned you have.
Darius
Every time you learn.
Peter
And you're that whole experience, perhaps ruminating on it or observing it, which is a tool we share sometimes in mindfulness. Absolutely. Just observing your behavior sometimes helps you learn. Okay, well, next time I'm in this situation, this scenario, maybe I'll handle, I'll behave differently if I—because I've noticed or what am I feeling now? Feeling guilty.
Peter
And then I get defensive. And then I say things I don't really mean to say, behave in ways that aren't present. There's nothing going on that caused me to be guilty. So that kind of processing sometimes can help in those moments. And, and we talking about learning from our experiences and learning so that the next time maybe you say you're sorry and you just say, yeah.
Darius
I think the other thing we need to do is—and I read this book by Gary Chapman called The Love Languages. And there's different ways that people communicate affection, words of affirmation, physical touch, acts of service, gifts, and quality time.
Darius
And we need to figure out what our partner needs. If you're lucky or if you've chosen well, your love languages might completely coalesce, and, you know, cuddling on the couch and saying nice things to each other does that. Or maybe just buying each other really expensive, thoughtful gifts, and that does it. Odds are your love languages are going to be slightly different.
Darius
And so what resonates with you is not going to resonate with your partner. So you need to make that conscious effort to, one, identify what they need, to provide it for them.
Peter
Yeah, I would say without judgment.
Darius
Absolutely.
Peter
Don't validate or invalidate it, just—it is. Yes, it just is.
Darius
It is. I think we need to recognize something we raised earlier. One person is only one person. And it goes back to the point you raised earlier about you get everything from your mom when you were little, you know, in utero, and then when you were a small baby. You're not going to get everything from one person anymore.
Peter
No, that only happens in vitro. And that's it. After that, independence, growth, evolution, and in the process, the impact of so many moments in your life.
Darius
It's exactly right. And I think we need to look at the sabotaging patterns that we bring to the table. We talked about that priming, that tapestry that we had, conscious and subconscious. I think that plays out with a number of different sabotaging patterns.
Darius
And I can give you an example from my own life. I would show up to my significant other's house on edge because I thought they were having a bad day, not open, and what would happen? I was essentially creating that which I was trying to avoid versus showing up and being open and accepting and supportive—a sabotaging pattern that I had that I was playing out over and over again, thinking that that was the way to be safe.
Peter
So how did you learn that it was a sabotaging behavior? What was your experience with it?
Darius
Well, if you bash your head into a wall enough times and the head doesn't go through, one picks up their head and says, what am I doing here that's creating this? Yeah.
Peter
Did you catch that? For me, I'll share my experience with the sabotaging behaviors, noticing the thinking that's negative and how it's causing me to feel, and then the judgments that I believe are heading my way about my actions or non-actions and the anger that starts rising up from being judged.
Peter
The reminder that, you know, this is my experience with my parents, and then I start manifesting what I was not intending unconsciously because of all these other factors.
Darius
You use the right word there, Peter. You're manifesting it. I would walk in on guard, and I would be in the process of manifesting that which I was trying to avoid because I was thinking about it. Yeah, I was living it in my mind before it even happened versus now just walking in, being open to whatever I'm going to find.
Peter
Yeah. Again, we come back to just be present.
Darius
Just be there. Just be there. I think the other thing we need to look at—one of the things that I've learned on this journey—is you have to look at the facts.
Peter
I mean, the facts? Don’t you always look at the facts?
Darius
Well, I have a wonderful coping strategy of selectively retaining facts that support my feelings and my hypothesis and discounting or ultimately or outright forgetting facts that don't support my narrative.
Darius
So I guarantee every man in this audience and a lot of women can relate to the internal narrative that gets going on in your head. He did this because he thinks this. She did this because of this. Then this is going to happen. And it takes on a life that says, she didn't do this. That narrative takes on a life of its own.
Darius
And what I'm saying is, for me personally, I'm really good at finding the facts that support the narrative. There might be eight facts that contradict it. But those two that support it, they win.
Darius
So what I'm trying to do is take a balanced look at all the facts. And when that narrative gets turning—and it still gets turning—to look at why it's turning, to understand where it's coming from, and then to figure out how I want to respond when that narrative is going. Do I keep going down the same path or try something different?
Peter
Yeah, yeah, the facts, ma'am, only the facts.
Darius
Just the facts, ma'am. Dragnet.
Peter
It’s an old show to refer to, but yeah, if the facts—and this, I suspect, is a male attribute—if the facts don't fit, then we must acquit.
Darius
If the glove does not fit. And we got another old reference there.
Peter
I'm sorry for that one. But no, seriously, I think men tend to tailor facts—the narrative, as you said—to their preference or to their benefit. And I suspect—I will judge—I will perceive that men have a tendency to do that more than women.
Peter
And if we can be more aware of that, I think it can help tremendously with understanding, one, what we're creating in the dialog, in the communication with our significant love relationship, and two, hopefully there's no way that you can have dominance or an understanding that all the facts are being presented.
Darius
No. And we can't understand what our partner is feeling. No. Right. And so when our partner says that he or she is feeling sad, well, we have to accept that they're telling us the truth and that is their feeling at that moment in time, we might not be sad over the same events that have occurred, but they are.
Darius
So I don't know, Peter. If males or females have the narrative more frequently, I would say I think it's very individual. I think some men have it more frequently than other men.
Peter
I would agree.
Darius
Right. It's highly based on the conditioning, on the nature of the relationship that you have with the person, your level of trust, your level of comfort, your level of security. I think there's a lot of factors that go into that narrative.
Peter
Yeah, yeah, I agree with that.
Darius
So, Peter, we are getting to the point where we're starting to wind down this episode. We've covered a lot. We've covered the subconscious beliefs that go into setting the stage. We've covered partner selection, we've covered the initial phase. And on that topic, as someone who was in the initial phase, lost the initial phase, but then made a focused effort to get it back, I can tell you, you can get back to that initial phase where you have harmony in a relationship.
Darius
It is a lot of work, it is a lot of effort, and it requires both you and your partner to be equally committed to the endeavor. And if you both are, magic can happen.
Peter
What is—we should talk about—what is harmony?
Darius
What's harmony to you?
Peter
Harmony for me is peace. And it's a relationship where your interactions, for the most part, on balance, are at peace. You interact. You communicate in a way where it's respectful, honorable, and it maintains a homeostasis—a balance of respect, honor, love. More importantly, love not based on just your judgment or your partner's judgment, but just the essence of love, which is harmony. It's peace. It's balance.
Darius
I think it's more than that. I think it's someone who will put the mirror up to you. And you need to see the mirror, but be there to help you when you see what's happened. It's someone who challenges you and elevates you in ways that you otherwise wouldn't have been able to do yourself.
Darius
It's that partnership, and I mean a true partnership, the aligning of the male and the female energies. And it doesn't matter if you're a man and you're more feminine and you're amplifying the female pole, or if you're a woman amplifying the male pole. It's just bringing them together to create something bigger and better than either of you would be able to do independently.
Peter
Yeah, I think that's very well said. Very well said.
Darius
I'm glad we got it on tape so that I can—
Peter
Listen to it again.
Darius
So what's our call to action coming out of this topic that we've been diving?
Peter
Our call to action for our audience is that they listen to this podcast again with their significant love relationship, and then talk about your loving relationship with your partner. And you, me, hit upon some of the themes that we've talked about. Uncover areas where in your relationship you might grow and learn, evolve, or where you're stuck, you know, because sometimes you're stuck with the same behaviors over and over again.
Darius
Yeah. So listen to our podcast again. It's going to be posted on agedifferently.com. Do you have comments, feedback? Jump on there. The caveat that Peter and I started with, neither of us are experts in this area. Both of us are students. The road to hell is paved with good intentions. So let's hope we're not going there.
Darius
But our intention here is to help people understand how the male approaches this relationship, the myriad of factors that go into it, and how to look at yourself to improve your relationship with your significant other. You can't change them. Yeah, you're going to try. It's not going to work. The only person you can change is yourself.
Peter
Yes. And by way of clarification, the male energy with male energy could be with another woman or another man, as you so eloquently stated earlier.
Darius
Yeah, exactly. All right, Peter, a poem.
Peter
I have two.
Darius
Two. All right. Well, because our episode went a little bit longer today, I think two poems are appropriate.
Peter
And hopefully this is food for thought that will be inspiring for our audienc
Peter
This love, it's not perfect. It's uncertain. It's painful at times, but surely rewarding. More, when it's egoless, humble and shy.
Darius
Nice. That's a good one, Peter.
Peter
And this other one is one. Just food for thought I leave the audience with. It's a poem by Rumi, the famous 13th-century poet, scholar, and sage out of Persia.
Peter
It's titled No Expectation: The spirit that lives in this world and does not wear the shirt of love. Such an existence is a deep disgrace. Be foolishly in love, because love is all there is. There's no way into presence, being present, coming into existence except through a love exchange. If someone asks, "But what is love?" Answer: dissolving the will. Through freedom comes to those who have escaped the questions of free will and fate. Love is an emperor and the two worlds play across him. He barely notices their tumbling game. Love and a lover live in eternity. Other desires are just substitutes to that way of being. How long do you lay embracing a corpse? Love rather the soul, which cannot be held. Anything born in spring dies in the fall. But love is not seasonal. With wine pressed from grapes, expect the hangover. But this love path has no expectations. You are uneasy riding the body. Dismount. Travel. Lighter wings will be given. Be clear like a mirror reflecting nothing. Be clean of pictures and the worry that comes with images. Gaze into what is not ashamed or afraid of any truth. Contain all human faces in your own, without judgment of them. Be pure emptiness. What is inside that you ask? Silence. Silence is all I can say. Lovers, have some secrets.
Darius
Wonderful. Thank you, Peter, and thank you everyone for listening. And as always, go to agedifferently.com. It will be posted there, and we welcome your feedback and comments. Until next time, everyone, have a safe and blessed day and hug the one you love.
Peter
Yes, thanks for joining us. Be well.
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